LGBT Issues and Vidja Games

[UglyCasanova]

As long as it's seamlessly integrated into the game/story, and not something that the developers tack on in order to come off as diverse, I say go ahead, I'm game.

[Stevil]

Haha, I love how you just summed up most of the thread in two sentences. Also I caught Boone in bed with Arcade once. That was my favorite part because dude, Boone? Seriously? Nobody would have expected that.

Hey, dude was lonely after the whole dead wife thing.

It was time to move on...to the extreme. Cos that's how Boone rolls. No half measures.

[Sir Legendhead]

Hey, dude was lonely after the whole dead wife thing.

It was time to move on...to the extreme. Cos that's how Boone rolls. No half measures.

That's pretty much exactly how I saw it and I liked his character even more for it. After the things he's done why draw a line there?

[Analoge]

What I have a problem with is that because trans* is tacked on to the end of an acronym with lesbian, gay, and bisexual, people assume that it's the same issue, and the trans* issues are issues of sexual orientation when they're not. It's not even the same planet.

[noobspoon]

Some of the possible companions were gay and it was no big deal at all. I think I like how they did that because it shouldn't be a big deal because it's normal.

This, game devs going out of their way to make homosexual or transgender characters stand out is rediculous.

[Stevil]

What I have a problem with is that because trans* is tacked on to the end of an acronym with lesbian, gay, and bisexual, people assume that it's the same issue, and the trans* issues are issues of sexual orientation when they're not. It's not even the same planet.

Aw man, we haven't even started on the hemaphrodite character in Nier, yet!

[usedtabe]

I'm with Trev. I personally hate dating sims disguised as story telling and refuse to participate. I don't care about video game sexuality at all. If the Doom marine turned out to be flamboyantly gay in his off-time it wouldn't mean a thing to me. As I said in a recent podcast, I would so play a drag-queen over the top DMC, but that's just because I love drag. The characters actual sexuality would mean nothing to me though and I would ignore all options to romance male and female alike.

[DpadJoe]

What I have a problem with is that because trans* is tacked on to the end of an acronym with lesbian, gay, and bisexual, people assume that it's the same issue, and the trans* issues are issues of sexual orientation when they're not. It's not even the same planet.

That's true and why I always try to appreciate that transgender people must feel very alienated, there's only one game I can think of that deals with it dys4ia (very interesting game). I must admit I think society as a whole still has a very long way to go with trans rights, I also think game developers are scared shitless of that topic even more than gay issues but with devs like anna anthropy at least that mentality should start to change. This is where us gamers who support both trans and gay rights need to make sure the bigots don't persuade game publishers to shy away from the subject by continuing to show support of diversity in games.

[Trev]

I'm with Trev. I personally hate dating sims disguised as story telling and refuse to participate. I don't care about video game sexuality at all. If the Doom marine turned out to be flamboyantly gay in his off-time it wouldn't mean a thing to me. As I said in a recent podcast, I would so play a drag-queen over the top DMC, but that's just because I love drag. The characters actual sexuality would mean nothing to me though and I would ignore all options to romance male and female alike.

Back when I was playing Army of Two co-op with someone, we joked about how it was two dudes with bedazzled guns romping around the desert with decorative masks on. As the game went on, we noticed they really did kind of care about each other and give each other a hard time and thought it would have been a really great subtext if they were actually gay and just kind of kept that shit on the back burner while they were working. They were a couple of manly dudes, who happened to like manly dudes, and just did their thing anyway. The fancy hi-5s and gun swaps become really adorable if you look at it like that.

Now there's just the matter of all the brown people you spend the first half of the game shooting...

[Revuhlooshun]

Most gay characters are really boring and not worth the time spent learning about them. The only homosexual character I've seen that bucks that trend is Omar from The Wire, and that's because his character and personality are not defined by his sexuality--he's an interesting person who happens to be gay, whereas most gay characters are simply gay and it is therefore assumed by their creators that they should be interesting on that merit alone (they're not). I think it's more important that we focus on what a character thinks and stands for, rather than what orifice they jam into their orifice.

"We need gay characters! We need black characters! We need female characters! We need characters from the Sun!"

Can we just get some interesting characters? I would sign that petition.

[DpadJoe]

Back when I was playing Army of Two co-op with someone, we joked about how it was two dudes with bedazzled guns romping around the desert with decorative masks on. As the game went on, we noticed they really did kind of care about each other and give each other a hard time and thought it would have been a really great subtext if they were actually gay and just kind of kept that shit on the back burner while they were working. They were a couple of manly dudes, who happened to like manly dudes, and just did their thing anyway. The fancy hi-5s and gun swaps become really adorable if you look at it like that.

I will never look at that franchise in the same way ever again now, thank you that's awesome

[Sir Legendhead]

I'm with Trev. I personally hate dating sims disguised as story telling and refuse to participate. I don't care about video game sexuality at all. If the Doom marine turned out to be flamboyantly gay in his off-time it wouldn't mean a thing to me. As I said in a recent podcast, I would so play a drag-queen over the top DMC, but that's just because I love drag. The characters actual sexuality would mean nothing to me though and I would ignore all options to romance male and female alike.

The only time I've really cared about the dating sim thing was with FemShep and Liara, and even that was just because it reminded me of how Dennis Quaid wound up having a baby with Lou Gossett Jr. in Enemy Mine. They weren't even a couple in the film but it was great how they wrote it.

Spoiler!

They started out as enemies then became friends after being shot down in the same place, then Gossett had a baby all by himself because he was a lizard man and could do that. Then he died and Quaid had to save his lizard baby godson from the other humans.

That movie is so damn awesome.

[DpadJoe]

Most gay characters are really boring and not worth the time spent learning about them. The only homosexual character I've seen that bucks that trend is Omar from The Wire, and that's because his character and personality are not defined by his sexuality--he's an interesting person who happens to be gay, whereas most gay characters are simply gay and it is therefore assumed by their creators that they should be interesting on that merit alone (they're not). I think it's more important that we focus on what a character thinks and stands for, rather than what orifice they jam into their orifice.

"We need gay characters! We need black characters! We need female characters! We need characters from the Sun!"

Can we just get some interesting characters? I would sign that petition.

Interesting is such a subjective word, to me someone could be fasincating but to you boring as hell, to me there are already interesting characters such as clem from the walking dead. I want interesting characters but I also want diversity. Look at brokeback mountain, that film is a fascinating love story with interesting characters while the theme is gay in nature it is also about forbidden love (something anyone can connect to) Why can films grapple with these kinds of interesting subject matter and characters but games are stuck in the stone ages, films used to be silent movies solely about physical comedy but they evolved so why do games try so hard to stand still.

[Byronic Man]

The whole "characters being defined by their sexuality/etc" thing is mainly manufactured by the fact that many people have been alienated to the point where the basis of their alienation has become a big thing for them. They start to identify through their underrepresented characteristic and express themselves as such. Media bigwigs see the effect and replicate it in their products without copping on to the cause.

The more of those characters you get bouncing around the medium, the less people feel alienated and the less they identify via their sexuality/etc. Similarly, the more product creators understands a subgroup the less they see them as "abnormal" and "extraneous" and the more they see them as people.

Edit: Generalizing, of course.

[Revuhlooshun]

Interesting is such a subjective word, to me someone could be fasincating but to you boring as hell, to me there are already interesting characters such as clem from the walking dead but most of the characters in games. I want interesting characters but I also want diversity. Look at brokeback mountain, that film is a fascinating love story with interesting characters while the theme is gay in nature it is also about forbidden love (something anyone can connect to) Why can films grapple with these kinds of interesting subject matter and characters but games are stuck in the stone ages, films used to be silent movies solely about physical comedy but they evolved so why do games try so hard to stand still.

Diversity comes from a difference in thought. Ok, you're gay, but what good is that if you think like everybody else that I know? How diverse are you if you behave like 90% of the population, regardless of if you are attracted to the same sex?

You can have a gay character that's diverse in being and thought, but to worry more about them being gay over them having depth is to put the cart before the horse. Or rather: We should shy away from shoehorning gay characters into a story just because they're gay in order to fill a quota, and instead should spend the time necessary to make them into a believable human being (which I'm sure most people would agree with).

[usedtabe]

@Rev: definitely sign on to the interesting character petition. I don't care about their race, sexuality etc just if their story is interesting. Minerva's Den did a great job of having a different protagonist who was amazing not because he wasn't the standard you would normally play as but because he was an awesome character.

@ Legendhead : I love Enemy Mine.

[DpadJoe]

Diversity comes from difference in thought, in my opinion. Ok, you're gay, but you think like everybody else that I know. How diverse are you if you behave like 90% of the population, regardless of if you use conditioner or not?

You can have a gay character that's diverse in being and thought, but to worry more about them being gay over them having depth is to put the cart before the horse. Or rather: We should shy away from shoehorning gay characters into a story just because they're gay in order to fill a quota, and instead should spend the time necessary to make them into a believable human being (which I'm sure most people would agree with).

Okay I respect your opinion, I personally disagree that diversity is only rendered through thought but that's just my view. I would however ask why if 90% of the population act like me video games are not representing what I and others have put across.

You can have a gay character that's diverse in being and thought, but to worry more about them being gay over them having depth is to put the cart before the horse. Or rather: We should shy away from shoehorning gay characters into a story just because they're gay in order to fill a quota, and instead should spend the time necessary to make them into a believable human being (which I'm sure most people would agree with).

Also I agree that an interesting character should be of paramount importance but there is a problem that sexuality is being ignored, games are still in a fantasy land where 99.9% of the population are straight and cisgendered this is simply not the case. If every character in games was female you would be pissed off at the lack of representation and realism would you not?

[Revuhlooshun]

The "you" in those sentences were meant to be rhetorical.

If every character in games was female you would be pissed off at the lack of representation and realism would you not?

No, I wouldn't. "Realism" is not what attracts me to games or movies. If the plot is good and the characters are well thought out, what does it matter if they're women?

Again, I care about what their thoughts are, not their genetic makeup. I judge them by the content of their character, not by the color of their underwear.

[Analoge]

No, I wouldn't. "Realism" is not what attracts me to games or movies. If the plot is good and the characters are well thought out, what does it matter if they're women?

Because they are women? It's a common misconception that if someone says something like, "I don't see race" or "I don't see gender" that it makes them an enlightened, accepting person. The fact is that when you do that you erase part of those people's identities. To use your metaphor, the thoughts they have are directly tied to the color of their underwear and their life experience as a wearer of that color underwear.

[DpadJoe]

No, I wouldn't. "Realism" is not what attracts me to games or movies. If the plot is good and the characters are well thought out, what does it matter if they're women?

Again, I care about what their thoughts are, not their genetic makeup. I judge them by the content of their character, not by the color of their underwear.

The plot has nothing to do with it, if everything you played had no representation of something that is a large part of what makes you-you then it would feel extremely alienated.