Politics thread

[Revuhlooshun]

How 'Cliff' Talks Hit the Wall

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?"

"You get nothing," the president said. "I get that for free."

[Sir Legendhead]

Mr. Obama insisted on raising tax rates for those with household income above $250,000. The House GOP wanted significant spending cuts and fundamental changes to Medicare and other entitlement programs in exchange for new tax revenue.

Because why put the burden on the wealthy when we have the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Sarcasm there obviously, but to be honest I really don't think the conservatives would be too bothered if the bottom half of the country were to die off overnight.

50% sound too high? What about 40, 30, 10 -- ten sounds more reasonable. Doesn't it. Let's say the bottom ten percent of the country just vanished. Maybe they all shot each other, whatever, it probably wouldn't matter how it happened. Do you think the news would report it as a tragedy? Would they be able to milk that for days or weeks on end?

I'm just rambling now of course but w/e. Questions of this nature interest me.

[Revuhlooshun]

Steaming past Guantánamo, en route to the Cayman Islands, a boatload of Republicans ponder the plight of a party at sea.

http://nymag.com/news/features/repub...ruise-2012-12/

Rasmussen offered some friendly advice about approaching minorities. “You show them that you really care, you talk to them as grown-ups on a range of issues, you get them involved,” he suggested, “and you accept the fact that it’s a long-term investment. And you accept that you can learn as much from them as you can teach them.”

This was harsh medicine to reluctant patients, and afterward some of them made their discomfort known. “That depressed me!” one woman said. To my right, a man snapped, “That’s bullshit!”

---

Susan from Princeton granted that the Republican Party is “lily white and it’s a problem and it is messaging and Mitt Romney screwed up royally.”

But Ms. O’Sullivan again took umbrage. As everyone went silent, she recalled a conference she attended in Australia in which a liberal nun (who “didn’t even have the decency to wear a habit”) criticized America for its “inner-city racism.” Offended, Ms. O’Sullivan recounted what she wished she’d said to this nun:

“Pardon me, madam, but I have been in your country of Australia for ten days and the only Aborigines I’ve seen have been drunk on the street, and at least if we were in my country they would be serving the drinks at this conference!”

---

“This is a more downbeat bunch this year,” [Jonah Goldberg] said. “We lost in 2008, but it was almost boisterous and fun. This, a little less so. People were dyspeptic.

“Their conception of what the country is about, they really were sure the country would reject Barack Obama,” he continued. “I do think it hits them hard. The fear I have, why this election stung, I think, Obama has successfully de-ratified some of the Reagan revolution in a way that Clinton never could and didn’t even try to. That’s what freaks people out, that feeling in their gut, either Obama has changed the country, or the country has sufficiently changed that they don’t have a problem with Obama. That’s what eats at people.”

[PhilKenSebben]

How 'Cliff' Talks Hit the Wall

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?"

"You get nothing," the president said. "I get that for free."

Heh, Heh, Mr. Boner...Heh Heh

I'll leave now...

[Steven Hansen]

Over the cliff we go, yay! ^_^

[Revuhlooshun]

Putting aside the fact that the whole thing is a comically self-inflicted wound by Congress, the fiscal cliff is a lot of hype. It's a lot of panic and postulating by both political actors looking for leverage in negotiations and media outlets looking to gather ratings. This isn't a 2008 moment where serious damage is about to be inflicted on the economy at large -- the entire ordeal is simply an exaggerated budget negotiation with some mildly important, though not life threatening, aspects.

If we do go over it, whatever damage that is caused will be mainly due to people panicking over the situation and reacting irrationally. Half of economics is psychology, and all we're doing with this sideshow is fucking with people's heads.

We will get a solution eventually.

[usedtabe]

You said exactly what I've been thinking ever since I heard it called "fiscal cliff". The FGC couldn't hype the next Street Fighter at EVO as hard as this thing has been hyped.

For extra lols my Grandfather watches Fox News almost all day and wonders why he's always depressed. And by lols I mean sadness.

[Revuhlooshun]

We can thank Ben Bernanke for the term. I rather like Bernanke, but it cements my point that it's lingo developed for negotiation leverage.

[Sir Legendhead]

You said exactly what I've been thinking ever since I heard it called "fiscal cliff". The FGC couldn't hype the next Street Fighter at EVO as hard as this thing has been hyped.

For extra lols my Grandfather watches Fox News almost all day and wonders why he's always depressed. And by lols I mean sadness.

I watched a bunch of Fox over Christmas and holy shit, I'm amazed at how people are able to take it seriously. It must be like that thing where some old folks still think pro wrestling is real. Jesse Ventura was right y'all, the two really are the same.



(the good part starts at about two minutes in)

[usedtabe]

I had to stomach some when I visited yesterday. Granted I don't care for any of the 24hr news networks but what I saw from Fox was especially sad.

[Revuhlooshun]

I'm really hoping that the new management at CNN will reshape it in the mold of the BBC or Al Jazeera in order to bring the company back to life. They won't get market share by trying to eat into the audiences of MSNBC or Fox News. The best way to get the company up and running again is to turn it into a serious news alternative with little or no editorializing. Most sane people are clamoring for it, I think.

[Sir Legendhead]

Fox is one of those things that I used to get outraged about, back when Bush and Cheney were still destroying the world. Now I just think they're funny. It's like Robocop's view of a dystopian future. Seriously waiting to see "I'D BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR" during one of their commercial breaks.

Also added video to my last post. It's pretty awesome.

[Revuhlooshun]

I think there's more than one way to look at what Jesse is saying. I think that it's a good thing that people are able to disagree vehemently without hating each other personally. In fact, that's actually one of the main reasons why politics has become so corrosive lately. Back in the day, Congressmen lived near each other in D.C. and rarely went back to their home states while serving their terms. They'd run into each other when taking their kids to softball practice or going out to the gym, and they'd end up becoming friends with people that they agreed with on nothing. It did a great deal to help forge compromise on important issues when they were back in the Congress. Now everybody gets into their planes and flies away on the weekends. There's not a Congressional community like there used to be, and it really shows.

I also think that it's a true sign of a mature and intelligent person to be able to befriend people you don't agree with--you argue like Hell and go all in when it's time to, and then you leave together and go have a beer once you're off the clock. It reminds me of something that one of my professors would tell our class when he was encouraging us to rip into each other's policy papers after we had presented them:

"You don't have to be nice guys. This is not about your egos. These are just ideas."

I can still hear him in my head saying that shit with his heavy African accent

[Sir Legendhead]

That's a good point about the community aspect. I see it as more of a universal comment on reality itself, and how the perception of things determines their "true" natures to varying extents.

Say for example you have a politician who's a really nice guy, yet everyone treats him like an asshole. Given enough time, that guy will eventually take on the traits which people project upon him, thereby becoming an asshole and proving them right. Of course it's possible for the reverse to take place but in those rare cases, you really have to admire the strength and purity of will required for a man to do such a thing.

And no, I'm not talking about anybody in particular with this, not intentionally anyway. Just the first hypothetical example which comes to mind.

Another example: Our money is only worth its face value because people believe in it. It hasn't been backed up by anything tangible for what, a century now, at least? Going over the thread again it seems we're on the same page here. Economics = psychology and all that.

[BulletMagnet]

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, "I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?"

"You get nothing," the president said. "I get that for free."

Assuming that the quoted exchange is factual, the purely practical part of me wishes the Prez wouldn't stir up more of a hornet's nest than he has to, but after being openly treated like a doormat and a traitor for so many years my liberal lizard brain pretty much orgasmed when I read that. I almost wish someone in the room had managed to take a photo of Boehner and the rest's facial expressions when Obama spoke: I'd have it framed and hanging in my living room.

[Revuhlooshun]

This is spurred on by nothing whatsoever, but I think that we should just get rid of the House of Representatives.

1. Inefficient. We don't need two legislatures. Every bill has to pass in the House and the Senate, and then they have to make sure that both versions agree, which is a process in-and-of-itself. That shit made sense back when Senators were elected by State Legislatures and represented entirely different interests, but that was back during the time of the steam engine. We now have iPods, Android phones, and the 17th Amendment. It's time that we update our firmware.
2. It's full of crackpots and psychopaths. Senators are elected by entire states with populations in the millions; Representatives are elected by only 700,000 people. This means that every inbred backwater in the country gets a voice in the Congress. That's dumb. Every dumb ass Congressman you see on television saying some out-of-this-world shit comes from the House of Representatives 9 times out of 10, and it's because we decided to give every cluster of morons in the country its own mouthpiece to send to D.C.
3. Dilution of power. Fuck what they told you: Ordinary citizens have too much influence in federal politics. Since Senators are held accountable to a wider electorate, they tend to be of a much saner stock. With one person representing millions of people as opposed to only 700,000 people, nutjobs wanting to stick an electrode up a woman's vagina for every abortion that she has won't have as much sway in elections once they're buried under the votes of all of the rational people around them.
4. Less elections. Senators are elected every 6 years; Representatives are elected every 2. This means that Representatives are always campaigning and rarely focusing on what's best for the country as a whole. I don't need to see campaign ads every 2 years, damnit.
5. Small states should have the same amount of influence as large states. Most of the smaller states produce more in wealth and revenue for the federal government and take less from it than most larger states do. Just because Texas and Florida have a lot of retards in them doesn't mean that they're more useful to the country than Delaware or Connecticut. Quality, not quantity.

The great part about this is that it'll never happen.

[Hector Garfria]

[Steven Hansen]

I came to post that. Bloo proves his superiority again.

[Revuhlooshun]

Obama Fiscal Cliff Remarks Spark Republican Threats To Blow Up Deal

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2388980.html

Why does the Republican Party house the biggest fucking crybabies in the universe? "Obama, I need leadership! Please hold my hand!" "Obama, why are you so mean to me?!" For fuck's sake, the Speaker of the House can't even get through a speech without welling up halfway through it. Congressional Republicans need to get back on their fucking meds.

[Steven Hansen]

Don't sign anything. Let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. Propose re-instating tax cuts, but not for the super wealthy. If republicans say no, their allegiances will never be clearer and an angry Republican middle class (along with everyone else) can vote them out next election.

Democrats shouldn't win the presidency and regain senate superiority just to fold and compromise for the sake of getting something done. That's sort of the point of elections, in theory. The people voted for the democratic platform, not to be shackled by a couple a horde of lunatics in the opposite party.