The reason why games aren't legitimate?

[Generic Purple Turtle]

For anyone who hasn't seen this episode of rev rant...

http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-...s-156579.phtml

anyway.. I was thinking that the reason why games arn't respected as an artform is simply because there isn't a game which tells a story with developed characters that has deep meaning and leaves you changed, and until not only one or two games, but many, at least I'de say 10% of the games coming out have decent stories with proper character development and are self contained, not just a setup for a franchise that just won't happen. And that means that we have to actually buy games like that, which for the most part we are not .

[somnambulist]

There has never been a painting before that told a story with developed characters that had deep meaning like you said. I think the reason games aren't respected as a legitimate art-form is because so many do not actually understand the defining qualities of this art-form. Or I should say we understand them, but not in an artistic capacity. This is especially evident when we fall back on this concept of games needing story or visual design to be real art. Honest to god, MUDs and roguelikes are as much artistic masterpieces as say Okami or Shadow of the Colossus. It's just that we have an underdeveloped or skewed notion of what art is. Ultimately, what makes an work of art is the mechanics which went into it, color and light and composition for painting, melody rhythm and harmony for music, and controls and rule-sets and player feedback for games.

In our modern vernacular, we call a game that successfully combines these elements a 'good game.' But there is really no difference then between a 'good game' and an example of artistic excellence. But we choose not to consider a game like Bejeweled a work of art because there isn't any story to it, or Metal Gear Solid because there is a guy in a gas mask who has psychic powers and floats around the room so that means it can't be art because there weren't any floating psychics in bondage gear or fat bald guys in trench coats on roller skates in the Divine Comedy or the Decameron or in whatever other reference you use for high art. These notions of high and low culture are outdated and are ultimately incongruous with the modern creative effort.

[Havoc Fang]

Video games make just as much money as films now, right? If not more?

If it's making equal to more and we have yet to get 'legit', then I say we're a little boned unless something brilliant happens soon. I know that money doesn't always make things great, but if it doesn't capture developer's interest in making new and interesting ideas soon in a successful way, we might be in the comic book situation sooner rather than later.

...I.E More Shadow of the Colossus, less Gears of War, more win.

[DJ Duffy]

I agree with Rev for the most part, but at the same time I highly doubt that the industry will be pumping out the same games in 50 years. Just look how far we've come in 25 years of gaming! Things have changed so dramatically, I think it's impossible to predict what might happen.

Money wise, yes, funding for indie games is a huge issue. What I feel like will eventually happen is that "younger" game developers now, 10-20 years from now will have the capital from their AAA games that they will want to invest and take those risks with bigger budget indie projects. If feel like that won't happen for a little while longer, simply because the medium is still quick new and there aren't too many wrinkly old game developers with so much money they don't even know what to do with it all.

[Generic Purple Turtle]

Video games make just as much money as films now, right? If not more?

If it's making equal to more and we have yet to get 'legit', then I say we're a little boned unless something brilliant happens soon. I know that money doesn't always make things great, but if it doesn't capture developer's interest in making new and interesting ideas soon in a successful way, we might be in the comic book situation sooner rather than later.

...I.E More Shadow of the Colossus, less Gears of War, more win.

The gaming industry does make a lot but more than the movie industry...

[ScottyG]

I think one big hurdle gaming has is that gaming culture is so ingrained with internet culture. Much more so than these other venues of entertainment and art. Given that the mentality of the internet can be summed up with "derp" and "tittles" I think we can all agree that internet culture isn't something that's given respect or legitimacy. Plus I'm pretty sure there's a much higher percentage of gamers than other art fans that'll call you a "-I'M A MASSIVE DOUCHEBAG-I'M A MASSIVE DOUCHEBAG-I'M A MASSIVE DOUCHEBAG", which also doesn't help things. :P

More of a guilt by association thing, but given that I'm not sure gaming will ever achieve that same level of legitimacy because if anything it's becoming even more intertwined with the internet. Unless something comes along that's even worse than the internet.

[Mueti]

This Rev Rant is making the exact point I was making myself for quite a while.
I don't really have a solution aside from hoping for the best; but the fact is that games are far too expensive to make for them to develop such a varied underground scene as in music (or in movies, btw!).
And while you weren't really wrong in comparing films to games in terms of budget, in order to make a technically up-to-par game you do require a lot more money than you do in order to create a great movie. Your examples weren't really that good either since the big-budget films you mentioned spent most of their money on their starring actors, a concept non-existent in gaming. In order to create good graphics, a big world, etc. you do need a LOT of money. Period.
That might change in the future, specifically once we actually do reach a point where technical stuff in games doesn't advance as much anymore. It kind of doesn't today but it still takes that money to create graphics that are up to today's standard.

Either way, I don't think a lot (if any) risks will be taken in games by big developers any time soon. Which is a shame but probably can't be helped; we still have the hope of something changing in about a decade's time.